Left 4 Dead

[madameye]

I was in two minds about starting a tactics thread for L4D after a lengthy session today on Expert level.
Having tried, what seemed, several hundred approaches with a bunch of enthusiastic players we came unstuck every time.
The conclusion I came to was that the AI is very good, yes, BUT maybe too chaotic. The other conclusion I came to is that it's probably more to do with me being shit.

When we get on to the full game though I'm sure it will be a whole different ball game (a very enjoyable one) but so far I can see there are basic tactics that can be employed to help keep people alive, longer. So here is a small, concise list I thought up and hopefully it will evolve and change over time or may well be of no use whatsoever against L4D's, almost organic, AI.

Leave them to shoot.
If a team mate is doing fine scything down zombies in front of you then leave them to it, don't walk in front or panic and think you have to start shooting as well. It wastes ammo having two people shooting the same thing. After a while they'll need to reload and you can take over.

Close the doors
This seems to be a positive at the moment whether it changes on other maps we'll see. Some people think it triggers the horde some don't. To be honest I've been trying to fathom what triggers the horde (apart from the pre-scripted car alarms etc.) and there seems to be no standard action. However, on several occasions, having the door closed has given my team enough time to get to the safe room as the horde bang away.

Shoot through walls, doors etc.
Yes, it works. Especially useful if you can hear a Boomer behind a door as its explosion will be safely contained.
Apparently the sniper rifle will shoot through almost anything (not tried it yet as it seems a bit useless against hordes).
Don't shoot through a door if the horde are banging at it though, for obvious reasons.

Look everywhere and listen to every sound (where possible)
Seems obvious but you can track the movement of smokers and hunters quite well and get prepared for their arrival.

Run away
Yes, the old favourite. When you hear the horde coming and the team is split then run back and find a corner to hide in, the bathroom, the broom cupboard anywhere where you can close the door and put your back to a solid wall. The biggest achilles heel it seems to me is the open access the Zombies seem to have. They can come from almost any direction and 4 players with their backs to a wall is better than 4 players in the middle of a melee (in my experience).

Leave the Witch alone
Unless all 4 of you want to gather round her and waste a full clip on her then it seems daft to disturb her. Blubbering bitch.

Stick together
Again, seems obvious but it still amazes me how many times players just go off for a walk and then get pulled up by a smoker making the rest of the team split up and save them. Don't go off and investigate a sound. Stay together, stay put and see what happens. The one thing about the AI that seems to be constant is that players that lag behind or stray from the main party get targeted in some way or another.

That's all I can think of for now. You may or may not agree with some of it based on your experiences but please feel free to add your own thoughts and advice. I really think the only way to get through all these maps (at a decent level) is to have a solid set of tactics that everyone follows. I've not been excited so much by a game in a very long time. I hope it stays that way for a while longer.

[peachFUZZ]

All good solid advise there.  Well done.
I'd add:

Do Nothing
I know it sounds crazy, but don't feel like you have to get involved.  Similar in vein to "Leave them to Shoot" above, at some points there's only room for 2 players, so the other 2 should just stand behind and when one of the front 2 is out of ammo, they step back and one of the rear 2 step up.  Steady and controlled forward momentum can then be achieved. 

It's Good To Talk
Let teamates know what's going on.  This is a game that will really benefit from good communication.  And if there's a discussion or dispute, accept the majority verdict.  You're a team, and the team's survival is more important than your ego.

But it's a gun
One for shotgun weilders.  If there's multiple enemy's, then when you've got a pale skinned douche in your face, bitch slap 'em.  The time it takes them stumbling back is enough for a couple more enemies to line up behind them, while at the same time unable to pass.  This gives you the chance to take out 3 or 4 with a single shotgun blast.

[madameye]

Do Nothing
I know it sounds crazy, but don't feel like you have to get involved.

So true. It pays to have someone at the back keeping a look out and checking for any other activity.

[Beats12]

Wow!  Some sound advice and tactics from ZTTB members!  Never thought I'd see the day.

Another piece of advice would be to hold on to explosive items and not waste them as soon as you get them.  Invariably, you'll be faced with a situation towards the end where everything is going to shit and being able to set the bastards on fire or blow them up would come in pretty handy.

[madameye]

Sniper Rifle
Is very powerful. Last night watched a guy, single handedly, take out the Tank with it (the Tank had killed the rest of us).
Used correctly it will take out two zombies at a time and I've noticed it's now fast becoming a favourite with many players.

Boomer
I think we've worked out now that Boomer vomit attracts the horde, try your level best not to get thrown up on.
This combined with a smoker and hunter attack is pretty devastating and can end a mission in seconds.

Hunter
I've found that, generally, it's better to leave the hunter to pounce on somebody then pick it off. More often than not ammo is wasted by all team members trying to hit it as it darts around the place. The sticking together tactic is the best defence against the hunter.

Head shots
Always try and aim for the head. Some zombies can take quite a lot of body shots before going down. Crouched in a corner with the horde coming at you doesn't have to be 'end game'.
Sit back, relax and carefully make a scything action across the horde's head area (perferably with the M16), they will all drop before you, provided you're fully loaded. You may need to shove back a couple right at the end.

Shoving
You can kill a zombie by shoving alone - obviously a waste of time in itself - but a weakened zombie can be finished off by one or two shoves. Shoving is good, embrace the shove.

[Andy_M]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW8tE93Vx8Q&eurl=http://www.vgcats.com/&feature=player_embedded


Funny, NSFW though.

[CK-iller]

Regarding finale levels/rescues:

I'm not sure about No Mercy or Death Toll, but from what I've seen Dead Air and Blood Harvest both have specific areas in the rescue levels where it seems to make sense to bunker down due to their ease-of-defence.

Dead Air:  In one of the far corners of the dispersal area there's basically a cupboard/closet thing in the wall, double doors, wide enough to fit everyone in with clear line of fire out.  Backing yourself in to something like that may sound like total lunacy, but I've done it once with some random guys (one of them had used it before by the sounds of it) and with all 4 of you laying down fire through a single door way, the infected get close but never enough to actually damage anyone before they're cut down by the sheer volume of lead.  When the tanks turn up there's load of free and open space in front of it in which the team can manoeuvre and take it out, hopefully without anyone getting hit.  Ammo is the only issue but it shouldn't be too difficult to run to the supply point and make it back.

Blood Harvest:  Someone from here mentioned this I seem to remember, so I tried it on single player yesterday; the red barn near to the farm house with the upper level.  The infected almost never seem to use ladders from what I've seen in all the campaigns, so other than the odd one which slowly clambers up on the inside there's only the ramp made out of hay bails that needs to be covered.  So with one guy on the ladder edge (which should be more than enough) you've got 3 guns to cover the small break in the wall near the hay; standard infected can't climb in to the hole that opens out looking over the farm house.  There's an ammo supply in the barn and you can easily enough dash through the previously mentioned opening in to the farm house room with the guns/medkits to pick stuff up and make it back to the barn before another wave arrives.

It's not the cool, fun way of doing stuff admittedly, but if you're playing advanced and just want to maximise your chance of actually beating the finale (which is usually the sticking point I find) then I think those 2 spots are quite handy.  Thinking about it their is the boat pier on death toll which can work very well as me and a few others found, but it's just getting to the house and back that can be the sticking point, needs some thought; no mercy... I wouldn't be surprised if there's a different spot on the roof which is easier to defend but I've not found one yet.

Just some thoughts.

[Beats12]

The barn is a justifiable method, as you're not exploiting the game like you are if you simply hunker down in a closet but are simply using the best area in which to mount your defence.  In Dead Air, everyone sitting on top of the petrol truck is a good plan (as long as you keep your eyes peeled for smokers, hunters and boomers).  As you mentioned, the peer isn't a bad option for the boathouse finale with re-stoking ammo being the only problem.  The little hut (not the ones with the toilet) wouldn't be a bad place if it was closer to the ammo.  Finally, on No Mercy, using the Stairwell (2 at the top and 2 at the bottom) is the best option that I've found...

[CK-iller]

Like the stairwell idea, end of the day it's all about minimising the number of potential entry points that your team needs to cover, more than 4 doorways/windows/broken walls and you start to run in to trouble.  Sometimes even if it's 4 or less and you get one of the big holes in the walls (like upstairs in the death toll house or the downstairs in blood harvest) then one person can't put down enough fire to cover such a large hole, even with the auto-shotgun.  Also I think height is a big advantage, making the infected climb slows them down significantly as the animations where the pull themselves up the ledges are very slow and laboured, plus they're in a very vulnerable position there and easily head-shotted.

Death toll is the only once I don't think I've survived on advanced yet, while I think it's in some ways easier than blood harvest the last time I played with you guys the problem we had was getting split up and caught by specials (mostly smokers) and dragged away in to the woods when running for ammo from the pier.  I think the strategy there really needs to be that once you come across a break, the whole team makes a run across to the house, picks-up whatever they need and comes back again, all as a tight-knit group, meaning any disabling specials like hunters/smokers are easily dealt with by teamwork.

A quick question about fire also, once common infected run through it are they instantly disabled?  I've noticed they seem to cease aggressive behaviours once alight but they do seem to carry on shambling for a while once through the flames...

[peachFUZZ]

Well, that was fun.  Shame we couldn't finish the Dead Toll level.  I think the house way is best, but all need to be healthy and mobile for the tank.

It does look like once common infected are on fire they are pretty much done, though they will still try to hit you as they go down.

[CK-iller]

I think the problem with the peir was that there simply aren't long enough gaps to get to the house and back and grab health, not unless you're all green and manage to sprint there and back with no interruptions what-so-ever; if it weren't for the bleeding tanks it'd be a piece of piss, they're the real problem end of the day.

If I were to try again, I'd say try a more standard strategy of using the upstairs with someone on the gun and the rest covering.  Make sure to clear out the little hut of supplies at the start, then defend the stairs and balconies; you can easily get to the ammo and health packs downstairs and back up to the rest within seconds, and when the tank turns up you can significantly cripple it with the minigun if it attacks within it's arc of fire.  Also all the molotovs and pipe bombs are within easy reach, and the pipes in particular come in handy when you need a bit of a respite from the common infected to heal up and take stock.

[Beats12]

The first time I did Death Toll, we used the upstairs room.  There are a maximum of 4 entry points and you can usually get the boomers before they even get close to the house.  You're also in easy access of the minigun and ammo etc.

[CK-iller]

Pretty much my thinking as well, the 2 times I did complete it with random people was using the upstairs room.  It seems too simplistic but I think end of the day some of the standard strategies are the best.  If you've got 4 people with M16s/Benellis covering the stairs, door, hole in the wall and window then that's everything pretty much sewn up, even if a boomer drenches someone it's only a few more common infected.  The hunters are easily dealt with if people stay in the same room and smokers won't be an issue as they won't be able to get an angle with the tongue to drag people away.  Then, as I say when the tank starts stomping in you can hop on the gun and hopefully do it some major damage before it gets too close in.